China needs a lot of Gold to make-up for a Loss Expected on Treasuries
It’s now, for some illusory insights on a theme of bullion loyal from that author’s mouth, let’s get right to this week’s disdainful interview.
Mike Gleason: It is my good payoff to be assimilated now by James Rickards. Mr. Rickards is Chief Global Strategist during a West Shore Funds, editor of Strategic Intelligence, a monthly newsletter, and Director of The James Rickards Project an exploration into a formidable dynamics of geopolitics and tellurian capital.
He’s also a author of several best-selling books including The Death of Money and Currency Wars and usually expelled his latest work, The New Case for Gold. James is a portfolio manager, counsel and eminent economist carrying been interviewed by CNBC, a BBC, Bloomberg, Fox News and CNN usually to name a few. And it’s a genuine honour to have him on with us again.
Jim, we unequivocally conclude we holding a time to pronounce with us today, and acquire back.
Jim Rickards: Thank we Mike. It’s good to be with you.
Mike Gleason: First off, I’d like we to pronounce about how we viewpoint bullion given we cruise it’s critical to start with that before we get serve into a discussion. we wish people to know where you’re entrance from. Now we know in a book, The New Case for Gold we go by some of a definitions and functions of gold, yet how should people viewpoint it?
Jim Rickards: we indeed few it as income Mike, and I’ll enhance on that a tiny bit. Although, how we viewpoint it is one thing, yet how a universe views it is another. In other words, we wish to take into comment conflicting ways people demeanour during bullion and cruise about gold.
If you’re going to possess it or going to store resources in it, again we cruise it’s a pristine form of money, yet not everybody agrees with that. It’s critical to know how other people cruise about it.
On that note, we call bullion a chameleon. Sometimes bullion trades like a commodity. Sometimes it trades like an investment, and infrequently it trades like money. It’s like a chameleon. You put a chameleon on a immature leaf, it turns green. You put it on a tree trunk, it turns brown. It adapts to a circumstances. Gold is mostly suspicion of as a commodity. It does trade on commodity exchanges, we know that, and it tends to be enclosed in commodity industries. The common bargain is bullion is a commodity in commodity trade.
I unequivocally don’t cruise that’s correct. The reason is that a clarification of a commodity, it’s a general substance, it could be rural or a vegetable or come from several sources, yet it’s arrange of a general undifferentiated piece that’s submit into something else. Copper is a commodity, we use it for pipes. Lumber is a commodity, we use it for construction. Iron ore is a commodity, we use it for creation steel. Gold indeed isn’t good for anything solely money.
Gold is substantially a best form of money, yet it’s not unequivocally good for anything else. People don’t run around a universe and puncture adult bullion given they wish to cloak space helmets on astronauts or make ultra-thin wires. Gold is used for that, yet that’s a unequivocally tiny apportionment of a application. People indicate to valuables and say, “There’s a conflicting application,” yet we cruise of valuables as wearable wealth. No improved instance than an Indian bride for instance where they competence have 4 or 5 pounds of 18 karat bullion necklaces around their necks, and it’s unequivocally overwhelming and maybe attractive, yet they cruise it to be their wealth. So it’s unequivocally usually a wearable form of wealth.
So we don’t unequivocally compute between valuables and bullion in terms of a financial gold. So we don’t cruise of bullion as a commodity for that reason. It’s not unequivocally submit into any routine or industrial process, yet though we have to know that it does infrequently trade like a commodity.
As distant as being an investment is concerned, that’s a many common usage. People say, “Well, I’m investing in gold,” or, “I’m putting partial of my investment toward bullion gold.” Again, we don’t unequivocally cruise of bullion as an investment. we know that it’s labelled in dollars, and a dollar value can go up, and that will give we some return, yet to me that’s some-more a duty of a dollar than it is a duty of gold. In other words, if a dollar gets weaker, certain a dollar cost of bullion is going to go adult or as has happened recently, if a dollar gets stronger, afterwards a dollar cost of bullion competence go down.
So if you’re privileging a dollar as a magnitude of all things, afterwards it looks like bullion is going adult and down, yet a approach we cruise of it is we cruise of bullion by weight. An section of bullion is an section of gold. If we have an section of bullion today, and we put it in a drawer, and we come behind a year from now and take it out, we still have an section of gold. In other difference it didn’t go adult or down. The dollar cost competence have changed, yet to me that’s a duty of a dollar, not a duty of gold. we don’t unequivocally cruise of it as an investment.
That goes to one of a indicate we make in my book. One of a criticisms of gold, and we don’t cruise it is a criticism, it’s usually a fact is that bullion has no yield. You hear it from Warren Buffet, we hear it from others, and that’s true, yet we kind of shrug and say, “Well yeah, yet bullion is not ostensible to have a produce given it’s money.” Just strech into your wallet or your purse and lift out a dollar check and reason it adult in front of you, and ask yourself what’s a yield? Well there is no yield. The dollar check doesn’t have any yield. It’s usually a dollar bill, a approach a bullion silver is a bullion coin.
If we wish yield, we have to take some risks. You can put a money, put that dollar in a bank, and a bank competence compensate we a entertain of 1% or something, not unequivocally much, yet now it’s not income anymore. People cruise of their income in a bank deposition as money, yet it unequivocally isn’t money. It’s an unsecured guilt of an spasmodic ruined financial institution. The risk competence be low, I’m not observant a risk is high or we ought to lift all your income out of a bank, yet we am observant that there’s some risk, and that’s given we get a return. Of course, we can take some-more risk in a batch marketplace or a holds marketplace and get aloft returns. The indicate is, to get a lapse we have to take risk. Gold doesn’t have any risk. It’s usually gold, and it doesn’t have any return. It’s not ostensible to. we don’t unequivocally cruise of it as an investment.
So that brings me to a third partial of a chameleon characteristic, that is money. And that’s what bullion is. Gold is money. It has no risk. It has no yield. It is a store of wealth. Classic definition, center of exchange, section of account. And that’s important.
So a approach we cruise of bullion right now, we cruise of it as money. we cruise it’s in foe with a dollar, a euro, a yen, a Swiss franc, and other forms of money, bitcoin for that matter, they’re all forms of money. And they’re competing for a biased welfare of people who need income and wish to store resources and we cruise gold’s doing unequivocally good in that context.
Mike Gleason: The thought of a bullion customary is removing some-more and some-more play these days, and has even been talked about some during a choosing cycle as certain possibilities are job for a lapse of a bullion customary as a approach to power in all of a out of control supervision spending, yet apparently many out there are unequivocally conflicting this idea. And a instance by a bullion customary naysayers is what happened during a Great Depression. Now former Federal Reserve Chairman, Ben Bernanke famously complained that a Fed was hamstrung by a bullion customary during a Great Depression. Talk about this given this is a common faith among Keynesian scholars and economists. Is that a scold arrogance to contend that a Great Depression possibly happened or continued as prolonged as it did given a Central Bank had their hands tied by a bullion standard? Are we traffic with fact or novella there with this renouned notion?
Jim Rickards: Truly fiction. It’s a multiple of undisguised fiction. Some people who should know improved who have their possess reasons for adverse a purpose of gold, and other people who don’t know improved they’ve usually listened this steady so many times that they trust it to be loyal yet ever unequivocally study it.
Now a thing that did minister to a Great Depression was a fact that a UK, before to 1914 there had been a unequivocally successful bullion customary from a tellurian customary and a inhabitant bullion customary from about 1870 to 1914 with conflicting countries fasten along a way. That was disrupted by World War I. After World War we in a mid-1920s, countries were looking for a approach to go behind to a bullion standard, yet they done a integrate mistakes.
Instead of going with a pristine bullion standard, they went with what was called a bullion sell standard. They pronounced general standards can be gold, yet it can also be dollars, pounds sterling, or French francs during a time. This apparently was a brew or a hybrid complement in that bullion played a role, yet so did a currencies, that meant that a complement as a whole is subjected to blunders and abuses by discretionary financial policies.
So when we demeanour during a Great Depression, a causes of a Great Depression, it had unequivocally tiny to do with bullion and all to do with unequivocally bad discretionary financial policy, utterly by a Federal Reserve Bank of New York, that eased in a late ’20s when it should’ve tightened, and afterwards tightened in 1929 and 1930 when it should’ve eased. So kind of like a Fed currently removing all wrong along a way.
Now, going secretly to a point, there were dual mistakes. One was in 1925 when a UK went behind to gold, they went behind during a wrong price. we contend they, this was Winston Churchill, Chancellor of a Exchequer during a time, picked a pre-1914 price, that was $20 an ounce. Obviously, they voiced it in pounds sterling, yet a dollar homogeneous was about $20 an ounce. The problem was a UK had doubled a income supply to quarrel World War I. They printed income to quarrel World War I, that’s what countries do. Actually, it was John Maynard Keynes who suggested Churchill, Keynes did not unequivocally preference bullion standard, yet he pronounced if you’re going to go to a bullion standard, we have to get a cost right. Keynes adored a many aloft price. He said, “If we go behind to a bullion customary during a aged revoke price, you’re going to have to revoke a income supply to contend a parody.” That is contractionary and depressionary, and that fumble did minister to a Great Depression.
Gold didn’t means a Great Depression, yet removing a cost of bullion wrong did minister to a Great Depression. That wasn’t a problem with gold. That was a problem with a politically energetic price, and again, what is unequivocally discretionary financial process rather than bullion per say. And Keynes was right, we should’ve had a many aloft price. A bullion cost of $40 an section instead of $20 an section in 1925 competence have avoided a Great Depression completely. We’ll never know, yet that could make a unequivocally trustworthy box for that.
Now as distant as a bullion customary interlude or opposition a ability of a Federal Reserve to quarrel a Great Depression, that is totally false, and a source on that is nothing other than Ben Bernanke. And we spoke to Ben Bernanke about this personally. Before he became Chairman of a Fed or even a Board of Governors for a Fed, he done his educational repute mostly during Princeton University doing investigate on a Great Depression, following in a footsteps of Milton Freedman and Anna Schwartz and some others who were a good pioneers of study a Depression by a lens of financial economics.
Bernanke wrote a book on it, that we review when we was researching my book The Death of Money and a book before that Currency Wars. And what he suggested is during a time, a law authorised a income supply to be dual and a half times a volume of gold. So take a volume of bullion that a Fed had, labelled in dollars, what was that, greaten a ounces by $20 an ounce, take that number, greaten is by 2.5, and that was a top extent on a income supply. So a income supply could not legally be larger than that.
Well in fact, a income supply during a Great Depression was never some-more than one times a gold. In other words, it had 100% ratio. It could’ve been 250%, that means that bullion was never a imprisonment on a income supply. The Fed could have doubled a income supply in a early 1930s yet carrying to worry about gold. So we can’t censure for a delay of a Great Depression. You have to censure a income supply.
In fact, a genuine problem was that banks didn’t wish to lend, and people didn’t wish to borrow. This, by a way, is a same problem we have today. Banks don’t wish to lend, people don’t wish to borrow. Velocity’s increasing, and we can’t seem to get a acceleration a Fed wants, and we can’t seem to get a economy moving. That was accurately a conditions in 1930. And that’s what Bernanke showed in his book.
So we met him recently, and had a unequivocally good review with him. we said, “Mr. Chairman, I’ve review your book to contend that bullion was not a imprisonment on a income supply during a Great Depression. Do we know that correctly?”
He looked during me and said, “Yes, we do.” So in other words, here’s Bernanke confirming to me face-to-face that bullion did not constrain a income supply of a United States during a Great Depression. So anyone who says that is loyal has their contribution wrong. Anyone who says that bullion caused a Great Depression has his contribution wrong given as we say, it was domestic decisions and discretionary financial policy, not bullion that caused a Great Depression.
Mike Gleason: Last time we had we on, we talked about a Fed and a fact that officials there have secretly certified they unequivocally don’t know what they’re doing, financial policies radically being run as a good vast scholarship experiment. They exercise rare policies and wait to find out what a formula will be. For example, executive bankers in Japan and Europe are currently experimenting with disastrous seductiveness rates. Common clarity tells us that creation people compensate seductiveness has to have apocalyptic consequences in terms of punishing those savers or safeguarding capital. Is it usually unusually short-term meditative that desirous such a weird policy, and do we see a reasonable possibility of these financial experiments agreeable good results?
Jim Rickards:I don’t cruise it’s a doubt short-term contra long-term perspective. we cruise a problem is that all of these experiments a Central Bank is conducting are formed on models, and a models are flawed. The models are not a good illustration of reality. They’re indeed possibly archaic or usually wrong in a clarity that they don’t offer a good outline of reality.
Your anxiety to disastrous seductiveness rates is a good instance of that. Let me explain a model, and let me explain a genuine world, and we can see that a genuine universe is unequivocally conflicting than a model, and you’re going to get some unequivocally bad unintended consequences.
So a indication says a following, “If people are receptive mercantile actors, they form expectations, and they’ll act currently formed on their expectations about a future.” The banking authorities levy disastrous seductiveness rates, that means in elementary terms, if we put $1,000 in a bank and we come behind a year later, you’re usually going to have $990 in a bank. They’re going to take 1% or $10 as a disastrous seductiveness rate. So they’re going to take your income away. Now a speculation is that we don’t wish that to happen. You’re a receptive actor, you’re like, “Huh. If we usually let my income lay there, they’re going to take it divided in a disastrous rate. I’ll go out and spend it. I’ll get something we want. we would rather spend it than lay there and watch it disappear”, like examination an ice brick warp in your hand, eventually a ice cube’s going to be gone. It’s arrange of an inducement to get people to spend money, that in speculation increases total demand, increases financial velocity, gets favoured GDP increasing, it helps to solve some of a debt and expansion problems that we face today. So that’s a theory.
In a genuine universe a conflicting happens. What people indeed contend to themselves is, “You know what? I’m saving for my retirement. I’m saving for my kids college,” or whatever it competence be, “if you’re going to have a disastrous seductiveness rate, if you’re going to take a income away, I’d improved save more. I’d improved boost my assets to make adult for a disastrous seductiveness rates so we can accommodate my assets and investment goals long-term,” series one. Number two, what kind of summary are we sending? What is a Central Bank observant when they levy disastrous seductiveness rates? What they’re observant is you’re disturbed about deflation. So as a consumer, we say, “If you’re disturbed about deflation, I’m going to spend less. I’m going to wait until a prices come down. Maybe we wish to buy a automobile or a fridge or something, yet if we cruise deflation’s entrance and prices are going to go down and we wait 6 months we can get it cheaper.”
So a speculation of disastrous seductiveness rates is that it encourages spending and increases total demand, yet a existence is that is indeed increases assets and reduces spending and reduces total demand. So it’s a process experiment. It has a conflicting outcome of what’s intended, not given these people are stupid, yet given they have bad models. That’s usually one example, there are competence we could give you, yet sufficient to contend a people with a slightest worldly bargain of how economies work are a people who are in assign of a economy, namely a executive bankers and in sole a Federal Reserve.
Mike Gleason: You pronounce a lot about banking wars and have created a book on a theme as we talked about final time we had we on. At some point, it will be in some vital players seductiveness for bullion to be repriced many aloft than it is today, and presumably they will have amassed a vast register of earthy bullion by that point. Do we prognosticate China or Russia, for instance, creation any kind of bullion associated power-play during some point? What would motivate a vital actor to mangle ranks and radically force a tellurian repricing of gold? And what impact would such a unfolding have?
Jim Rickards:I cruise something like that will happen, yet we don’t trust it will come about given of some uneven power-play on a partial of China and Russia. Look, China and Russia are appropriation thousands of tons of gold. It’s unequivocally clear. We don’t have to guess. The Central Bank of Russia is sincerely transparent. The People’s Bank of China is many reduction transparent, yet we have good information from mining outlay and Hong Kong exports into China, and a separate between sell and supervision direct to form a reasonable guess of how many China’s getting, substantially they have 4,000 tons, maybe some-more contra about 1,700 tons that they acknowledge to. So they have a lot some-more bullion than they admit.
Now a reason China’s doing it is not to launch a bullion corroborated yuan, a tellurian haven banking around a dollar, I’m not observant that those things positively could not happen, yet that’s not their brief run play. The Chinese know that a yuan is not unequivocally prepared to perform a loyal haven banking function, yet what they are doing is hedging their position in U.S. Treasury Securities.
Right now, China’s pot are about $3.2 trillion, by a way, that down significantly, they were as recently as 15 months ago, they were $4 trillion. So a haven position is down 20% or $800 billion in a final 15 months, and that’s continuing. So they’ve got a critical problem with collateral to start with, yet withdrawal that aside, they still have $3.2 trillion in reserves, of that about $2 trillion is denominated in U.S. dollars, and many of that are U.S. Treasury Securities. So they have a outrageous raise of U.S. Treasury Securities. They can’t dump them. People pronounce about it, yet a law is a book marketplace is low and liquid, yet it’s not that low and it’s not that liquid. And there’s no approach a marketplace could catch any poignant volume of offered by a Chinese. And if it became unfinished or disruptive or even noticed as malicious, a President could stop it, a President of a United States could stop it given a United States controls a remuneration complement for U.S. dollars, and a ability of a Chinese to sell and settle those U.S. Treasury obligations.
So China’s not going to sell a Treasury Securities. They’re stranded with them, yet they fear that a U.S. will boost a approach out of a U.S. debt problem, and they’re substantially right about that. Historically, that’s always been one of a ways a U.S. got out from underneath debt is by inflating a currency. So they’re sitting there, anticipating for a clever dollar. Believe it or not, a Chinese wish a clever dollar given if we had $2 trillion of supervision securities, you’d wish a clever dollar too. But they fear that a U.S. will try to boost a dollar, that is reasonable to trust that given a Fed has said, substantially many times that they have a 2% acceleration goal, that they’ve come nowhere tighten to meeting, so a Fed is perplexing all it can desperately to get some inflation.
So what a Chinese are doing instead, they can’t dump a treasuries, yet a disturbed about acceleration destroying a value of a treasuries, so they’re appropriation bullion as a hedge. So they’ve got to cruise of it as a vast raise of treasuries and a vast raise of gold. If a dollar’s clever and treasuries contend their value, a bullion competence not do unequivocally much. But if a U.S. gets a acceleration it wants and a value of a treasuries goes down, that is a some-more expected scenario, a value of a bullion is going to go up. China is going to be in this position where they remove on a paper, yet they make it adult on a gold.
My recommendation to investors, and what we contend to myself is, “You know what? If it’s good adequate for a Chinese, it’s good adequate for me.” If they can see this coming, given can’t bland Americans see it coming. That’s given we suggest a 10% bullion allocation. we pronounce about that in my book The New Case for Gold.
Mike Gleason: You’ve created about some poignant supply constraints that are building in a bullion market. Talk about this given this is a energetic that could, itself, blow a lid off of metals prices. What is your take on a tellurian supply conditions given we’re observant an awful lot of bullion going from a west to those unequivocally clever hands over there in a east, as we usually spoke about. And now, new prolongation is on a decline. What do your commentary uncover with honour to a tellurian supply situation?
Jim Rickards: Well when bullion goes from west to east, as people say, it stops in Switzerland. Recently, we was in Switzerland and we met with a conduct of a world’s largest bullion refinery. Here’s a guy, and what a bullion refineries do, they take bullion in a front door, and they boat it out a behind door, and in a center they reprocess it. The bullion that they get comes from 3 sources. There’s what’s called dore, that comes from a miners, that’s about 80% gold. They get what’s called scrap, that is jewelry: rings, watches, necklaces, et cetera. It could be about 75-90% bullion depending on possibly a 14 karat or 18 karat and so forth, maybe 75% gold. And they get bullion bars, bullion bars and coins, that are 99% pristine gold. Even that’s not good adequate given 99% bullion is called 2-9s, 9-9.
What a Chinese wish is called 4-9s, 99.99% pristine gold. So a refinery takes in a dore, a throw and a 2-9s. They warp it down and spin it into one kilo bars of 4-9s, and they boat many of that to China.
So this guy, my crony who runs a refinery, he knows who all a sellers are, and he knows who all a buyers are. He knows who a sellers are given that’s how he sources his gold, and he knows who a buyers are given they’re his customers. What he told me is that he’s got a watchful list of buyers, that China wants to buy twice as many bullion as he’s going to sell them. He sells to them about 10 tons a week. China would like to buy 20 tons, yet he can’t supply it given he doesn’t have that many gold. His plant is operative 24 hours a day.
On his shopping side, his sourcing, he’s saying, and he’s been in a business for 35 years. He’s observant for a initial time, he’s observant earthy shortages cocktail up. It’s indeed formidable to get a bullion that he needs to keep his refinery handling and to accommodate a demand. So again, here’s a man who’s right in a center of a trade. Gold is entrance out of a UK, London, a U.S., and elsewhere, a IMF, and it’s going to China. It is going from west to east, yet it’s interlude in Switzerland along a way. He’s a man who turns it into 4-9s gold, that is what a Chinese want, and he’s revelation me that there are earthy shortages out there. So it won’t be too many longer before there’s a disaster to broach by some play or some room gets impressed or a COMEX has to postpone trade given there’s not adequate bullion in a safe to prove a direct by a longs. Something’s going to mangle and make a cost of bullion skyrocket, and we are removing closer to that point.
Mike Gleason: Obviously, a metals markets seem to be utterly manipulated, yet as we start to tighten here Jim, what do we have to contend to a man who has been shopping for a final few years, yet hasn’t seen a cost go anywhere aside from maybe a initial integrate of months of this year maybe? Can a strategy go on forever, and can they conceal prices and perpetuation or does it have an depletion point?
Jim Rickards:It has an depletion point, and a reason we know that is we’ve seen 3 cost termination mechanisms destroy in a past 90 years. Go behind to a 1920s, 1930s that a bullion sell customary that we talked about progressing where they set a cost of bullion artificially low, that unsuccessful given people said, “Well I’ll usually take a gold,” and they couldn’t contend a pegs, and they were losing gold. One by one they had a amalgamate their currencies. France in 1925. England in 1931. The United States in 1933. France and England again in 1936 underneath a Tripartite Agreement. So that eventually pennyless down, and a whole general financial complement pennyless down in 1939 with a commencement of World War II.
And afterwards there was a barbarous London Gold Pool of a late 1960s where a G7 countries and Switzerland banded together and concluded to buy bullion to contend a price, and sell bullion as indispensable to conceal a price. A unequivocally elementary cost strategy system, and that pennyless down.
And in Aug 15, 1971, President Nixon finished a acclimatisation of dollars into bullion by a U.S. trade partners. Of course, we all know what happened next. We had hyperinflation, and a cost of bullion went to $800 an ounce. Then in 1971 it was $35 an ounce, by 1980 it was $800 an ounce. A 25 times increase, a 205% boost in a sincerely brief duration of time.
Then there was another bullion termination that has been going on given a finish of Bretton Woods, even yet Bretton Woods was over, a United States sole 1,000 tons of bullion in a late 1970s and forced a IMF to sell 700 tons of gold. So there was 1,700 tons of bullion dumped on a marketplace in a late 1970s by a U.S. and a IMF. That eventually failed, and of march like we say, a cost skyrocketed in 1980.
Thereafter, we stabilized a dollar with financial policies, we didn’t even try to go behind on a bullion standard, yet we stopped offered gold, yet a cost termination continued. The reason we stopped offered gold, by a way, is described in Chapter 1 of my book The New Case for Gold it’s a unequivocally engaging story given it talks about a tip idea of bullion on a Federal Reserve change sheets. we wish a readers suffer that, yet there’s a reason a U.S. can't sell anymore gold, and it does have to do with propping adult a Fed, yet we got everybody else to sell gold. We got a UK to sell many of their bullion in 1999. We got Switzerland to sell several thousand tons of bullion in a early 2000s. We got a IMF to sell 400 tons of bullion in 2010. Poor Canada, usually this year suggested that they are a initial vital grown economy to have no bullion during all. So even a bad Canadians had to dump 2,000 tons.
The U.S. stopped offered a possess gold, we went around a universe and got everybody else to sell their gold, they did sell, and now they’re regulating out. Meanwhile, China’s shopping some-more and some-more and more. So we are removing to a depletion point. These manipulations can continue for a while. It’s usually a doubt of supply and demand. If people are peaceful to dump gold, and there’s not that many demand, certain that’ll expostulate a cost down. But here we have a conditions where people have stopped transfer bullion for their possess reasons, yet a direct continues, and that’s going to force a cost to go up.
Mike Gleason: Well Jim it’s been a extensive honour to pronounce with we today. We’re outrageous fans of yours and have been for a prolonged time. we wish to tell a listeners that we’ve lined adult a approach for them to get a duplicate of your latest book The New Case for Gold along with a subscription to a Strategic Intelligence newsletter, a listeners need usually demeanour during a offer that is enclosed in today’s podcast proclamation email or embedded into a podcast playback page on a Money Metals website.
There is so many uninformed information in this book. we entirely enjoyed digging into it in credentials for this interview, and we strongly inspire out Money Metals business and listeners to possibly get a tough copy, download a audio book, or get a duplicate of it for your iPad or Kindle.
It’s truly good stuff, and we wish and your new book each success, and we unequivocally conclude your time today. Thanks so many Jim.
Jim Rickards: Thank we Michael.
Mike Gleason: Well that will do it for this week. Thanks again to Jim Rickards.
Submitted by: Mike Gleason
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